ADHD, Wait, What Were We Talking About?!!

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)  has become very common, especially with the increase in screen time. It can be challenging, whether you have it yourself or you are parenting a child with ADHD.  In this episode we talk to Jamie (M.Ed), a licensed clinical mental health counselor who specializes in educational, behavioral, and childhood trauma issues. Jamie shares her knowledge and experience with us and discusses that though ADHD can be challenging, both for the child and the parent, there can also be great blessings.  
A special thank you to Jamie!

With Love,
Your Hosts, Kimberly and Sherri

Resources: 

• "ADHD Non Medication Treatments and Skills for Children & Teens" by Debra Burdick LCSWN, BCN 
• "Mindfulness for Kids with ADHD: Skills to Help Children Focus, Succeed in School, and Make Friends" by Debra Burdick LCSWN, BCN
• "12 Principles for Raising a Child with ADHD" by Russell A. Barkley, PhD

With Love,
Your Hosts, Kimberly and Sherri

Transcript

0:04

Hi, I'm Kimberly and I'm Sherry. Let us tell you a little bit about our podcast, Lemonade and Sunshine. We're going to be talking to real people who have made lemonade with the lemons in their lives to help strengthen other people with their challenges. We all need to know that there's hope and light even on our darkest days. Days, and if you've ever felt alone in your struggles and who hasn't come and listen and sip lemonade in the sunshine. With us, with us today, we have a great topic, which is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or A DHD, also known as. ADD. And we are going to talk to a professional. But first, I just wanted to say a couple words. I was really excited about this topic. I think for moms who are parenting children who have this, it can be a Really hard. And sometimes lonely. It's hard to figure out how to help your child because each child is different and there's a spectrum. And sometimes we are very private about it because we don't want our children to be labeled. There's often a negative connotation with ADHD. And so we are protective of our children. We don't want anyone to view them negatively. And it's unfortunate that it is viewed this way because these kids are so bright, they do everything other kids do, but with this additional challenge. So it should be a credit to them. And instead of that, oftentimes, people hold it against them and are harder on them. And oftentimes we see. Children who are treated unkindly or unfairly blamed for a lot of things. And it's hard as a parent to see that. So we're going to be talking to Sherry's friend, Jamie, and Sherry is going to introduce her and hopefully it will help us to learn how we can help our children and help ourselves. And also, hopefully it will help us not to feel alone in this. Struggle because when children are struggling with something as parents, we also struggle with it. We want the best for our children. So without further ado, Sherry, do you want to introduce Jamie? Jamie Christiansen is a friend of mine and also a very educated person. Let me try to read off these credentials. I told her, I said, I don't even know what these letters mean. I have to read the credentials and don't know. So that tells you. This is very scary. She has a master's degree in education and Jamie is a licensed clinical mental health counselor. Jamie specializes in educational, behavioral, and childhood trauma issues. Now before private practice, she worked in the schools as a licensed school counselor, gaining experience with children and youth navigating mental health issues. After working as a therapist for LDS Family Services and the Children's Justice Center, she was the acting chairman for the Reach for Hope Suicide Coalition. She currently owns and operates ABC Counseling Services with her husband, and they have been married 24 years and are the parents of six children and one granddaughter. Jamie, we are so excited for you to be here, and I think Thank you from the bottom of our heart for taking time to be with us today. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Welcome Jamie. So I was told that It's actually not ADHD or ADD. It's like, it's the same and it's just a spectrum, but it's considered the same thing. Yes. So let's, let's go over a little bit of history about this diagnosis because there have been some changes in the last few years. So. Prior to the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, or known as the DSM 5, prior to that, ADHD was originally in the Disorders of Childhood, and it's now moved to a Neurodevelopmental Disorder, and within that classification, we have, it's now just titled ADHD, and it can be, uh, predominantly inattentive, Which that might have been what you may have known it as ADD. So just inattentive, it would show up and present as that. We also have a predominantly hyperactive or impulsive, and that most people recognize as the ADHD component with the hyperactive, but we also have a diagnosis of combined where you might see both of those presenting in that diagnosis. Well, And interestingly, I think it presents differently in males and females. In males, ADHD, or the Behavioral side of it presents more in like their activity level, but with girls, they can have more impulsivity in interrupting often and excessive talking and things like that. Have you seen that as well? This is where it gets complicated because those are quite normal behaviors when we look at gender differences. So, yes. We do see differences in the way that it might present, but. This category of a neurodiversity diagnosis like ADHD is very complex because there's other comorbidities, other diagnoses or issues that present just like ADHD or ADD, and that can be things such as childhood trauma, uh, and Hearing problems could be showing up. There could be a head injury, other learning disabilities. All of those things are going to manifest similar to if you were to do a checklist to see if somebody qualifies or has these symptoms of ADHD, uh, they're going to mirror it, they're going to look very similar. And so. It becomes very difficult to parse out what we're actually looking at in terms of an official diagnosis. Sorry, my son just came in to show me a worm. I don't know why he just For instance. He knows! I'm recording. Okay. Not to name names or anything. So anyway, so I guess we want to know what are some of the challenges of having ADHD and then Parenting children with ADHD. I mean, it's such a large spectrum. Each child is individual. So it's really kind of hard to just ask a question. These are very broad questions. And so we want to hear from you what your thoughts are. So the reason we give a diagnosis. Is so that we can appropriately give the care that is associated with that presenting disorder. Um, unfortunately, there's a lot of, like we already talked about, carry over into different things. And so we might be headed down one track thinking it's this, and we're just not providing the right care. When we're talking about neurodiversity, and so let's maybe define neurodiversity, that's a newer term. It's understanding that. Everybody's brain is different and there's diversity within that. If you go to the medical world, of course, we've got back in science, we've got so many brains that we're looking at and we say, this is a normal functioning brain. This is what it looks like. This is the alpha and beta waves that a functioning brain works on at this level, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then anybody who's outside of that, now we say is abnormal. And then we start delving into abnormal psychology or something abnormal. As we've advanced in our ability to understand the brain and out of all of the physical systems of the body, the brain is the least known. It's so hard to get in there. It's hard to know everybody's so different and it's fluctuating all the time. A heart rate, like if you're talking to cardiovascular system, it's pretty standard from person to person, the rhythmic heartbeat is almost predictable. You can kind of put it in a range. The brain is so very different because we're talking, emotions are there. Memories are stored from a spiritual standpoint. There's enlightenment and spirituality that's all connected in there. And so it's makes it more difficult to really. Put a label on or then say this is how to treat this This is what you need to do at home as a parent It then becomes so very very individual with that. We might feel overwhelmed like oh, then there's nothing I can do I think when I teach parents who have a child who does Officially have this and we're going to start working on the presenting issues and symptoms of their adhd We look at things like time management You That's a difficult one where we just maybe often many of us who don't struggle with this watch parents learn from our environment very quickly what time is and how to stay within its parameters. Then we'll have somebody else who's needing a little bit more formal training and understanding and help with time management. And so then we would put in some applications, some routine helps within the home or school environment that's going to target time acquisition and time management. If that's what somebody's struggling with. And those things can look like setting timers and I. I don't have an official diagnosis, but I recognize that I too as an adult need to set parameters. Around my pinteresting or being on a particular whatever I say, you know what I give myself permission to be here for only this amount of time And then when that timer goes off i'm going to move on to something else Another thing that I feel like is really difficult is when we look at eegs I mean, if to truly officially get a diagnosis, I believe you'd have to actually test everybody with an EEG, check their brainwaves. Like, we don't go to that level of assessment. It's a checklist that a teacher and a parent, Oh, there's this child doing this, this, this, this. And do they meet that criteria? But to truly understand we'd have to know, Do they have a bigger, Oh, what's the, I'm trying to think of the name of that. The Amalgam, which enables us to switch gears quickly. And so some are lacking in that it's underdeveloped in their brain or they're thinking and rationally that the ability to take perspective, all of those things start to show up. And so we're going to put in practice things that help our children at home. And that might be why. You know, if you go to a behavioralist for help, they're going to look at the routines that are happening within the home or the classroom, and it might feel attacking, like, okay, now they're saying I'm doing this wrong or I'm bad, but that's what they're you're to look at. The behaviors are a function of what's happening in the, the environment. And so how do we manipulate the environment to then, um, create the change in the behavior. And different therapists. Attribute to different things. So some lean into the behavior, some lean into cognis, the cognitive, and some do both. And a good therapist will kind of look at all of those parameters and attack an issue or symptom from both sides. Jamie, that's great and great advice for choosing a therapist. And Jamie, what would you, what advice would you give to parents who are trying to parent kids that have ADHD or are in that spectrum as far as like consequences and things which seem to work for kids that don't have this tendency? Is there, um, is there some special way or any advice that you could give? I think the first thing would be to take a deep breath and not compare our children to other children and maybe coming at this as in the world of education. We have what we called the IEP. It's the individual education plan. And maybe if we also understood that each one of our children has an individual parenting plan that needs to be implemented, that they're each individual and we'll learn differently. So, yes, um, oftentimes. It appears like consequences such as taking away something or sitting them in time out may not be the tool to help them learn. And that's really what consequences are to help somebody learn to not repeat whatever the behavior is or whatever we're trying to change. So, again, You know, you yourself may have experienced, back in the days, spanking, time out, all those different things, uh, taking away something as a consequence for behavior, if you're finding that that style does not work for your child. Then we need to go to the drawing board and find out what it is that does help them learn to not repeat the behavior that we're trying to change or modify. So again, this is all trial and error, and parenting is hard, and we see other people, and we think they have it easier, or it's easier for them to. And maybe that's true. Maybe it isn't true. I would just tell parents that we're not trying to hold our kid to this like normal. There is no normal. Yay. And we want to just work with that child. And is that child going to be different than the other one that's in your homeroom? Absolutely. Yeah. And what works for one doesn't work for another. And that is a cruel joke. That's so hard. You're like, Oh, I've got to figure it out. Now, this is what we'll do. And then, no, not for this kid, this kid, you only need to say, well, I'm disappointed. And then they've got it. That's it. That's all you need. And then other ones you can't seem to get through at all. So that, that is really a challenge. So it's, it's basically what you're saying is just, you have to think about the child and what, what might motivate them to learn. Right. And I've used different tactics. And of course I can't give you all the skills and tactics that might work or may not work suggestions. But one that I've used quite often is with some kids who are struggling with taking responsibility or seeing how that kind of unfolded. And where they could change something so that the outcome is different is kind of a comic book type activity where you fold a piece of paper into six boxes and you have them draw out like, okay, so what happened first? So I was in, let's give an example at school. So I was in the hallway. When I was walking to my class, that's the first little box and they can draw that, illustrate it. The second box, what happens next? Tommy came up to me and said something mean. So that's in the second box. And then the third one is I hit Tommy. I punched Tommy. Okay. Then, then we moved to the fourth box. What happened in that? So then administration came down, the principal came down and my friends gathered. What happened in the fifth box? I got sent to the principal's office. And then you show a picture of maybe they're drawing that they're sitting there being lectured to and anyway, and then the last one is I'm getting expelled. So then I have the student. Okay, like, let's look at this. Where could you have made a different choice? And then they'll start to like, How about this first box? And so all of a sudden we're also tapping into a different learning style, a visual, and oftentimes in our education and even parenting, there's a lot of talking, a lot of verbal lecturing even is what our teenagers and kids call it, that might not be what helps them connect the dots. And when we're looking at a neurodiverse, Disorder they're struggling with that prefrontal cortex making those connections. It's it's a slowing of the maturity of that frontal lobe is what we're looking at and so as a parent you're going to want to understand that and then maybe slow down and making sure that you're yes the chronological age of your child may be 15 and most 15 year olds. Can do this with just like a verbal reminder or whatever, but maybe the maturity of your 15 year old is actually more like nine. And so now I need to parent and my interactions need to be geared towards a nine year old's brain and not a 15 year old and not something that most people maybe don't understand because we often just see somebody see their age say, okay, so this is what I do. This is how you would interact with somebody at this age. It may or may not be accurate. And especially when we're dealing with trauma, if children are coming out of some kind of traumatic childhood. Whatever that is, we see more deficit in their chronological age and their maturity of the brain, and we want to make sure as a parent, we're giving them that space to catch up and to mature in that. And so all of that's going to be very frustrating. All of that's going to be, from an outside perspective, you're going to be judged that your kid is acting like, you know, This and not like that and I get it people it's hard and it's emotionally draining parenting in general It's hard, but then you add all of this and now we're talking we might not want to go places we don't want to be a part of some kind of community because I feel judged and I feel Embarrassed and I I don't know what i'm doing But the reality is none of us know what we're doing and we need to be kind and patient Um Are there helpful suggestions? Absolutely. And my recommendation is always for people who have this to seek out Real strategies that you're going to put into practice and try it out One strategy may or may not work for your child. It might be the bee's knees and oh, wow, this really changed putting a Bedtime routine has really helped And for somebody else that really didn't know make a big difference. So you want to try all of those things individually and also, you know, seeking out people who understand what you might be going through. So where do they seek this out? Where can they find this help? For ADHD, it's a very large group out there because it's a very prevalent diagnosis, maybe even over diagnosed. There are groups on social media, Facebook groups, there's parent groups, there's usually within the communities they'll have support groups for that and I think that Can be helpful just to normalize that, Oh, I'm not the only person struggling with this, that can help immensely. A parent take those deep breaths, feel reassured in their trial and error of parenting. And they might get some ideas through that. They might get some ideas that worked for somebody else and they get validation and they get some support and they don't feel so alone. Yeah. I love that. Right. And oftentimes my experience, unfortunately, working for so many years in the school district is often, there is maybe this quick jump and leap to, okay, now it's medication time. And in fact, I can resource a book that I have that parents can get where you're saying, I don't necessarily want to do medication that does help the brain chemistry and is going to help the focusing, but it is a stimulant. And so. You know people are okay with that and some people aren't so there are other options and sometimes people feel like My only option is to put my kid on meds for the rest of their lives or whatever There are many many different routes to go whether it's behaviorally working with some pools of organization different strategies If you will, for organization, for time management, for focusing, there's all those things. There's even a lot of research out there about utilizing neural feedback. So actually having the brain try to get rewired and alter and change the beta and alpha waves that the brain is putting out. It's amazing research. Is that like EDMR? No, EMDR. EMDR is, yeah, that's, no, that's for trauma. It's different. This is actually where you would, um, and there's people here in our own community and pretty much everywhere. It's a non evasive way to, um, Exercise the brain. And so you put on a cap that usually the research is based on the 16 probe kind of helmet thing that they put on their, on your child's head. And it starts to read out the signals that the brain is giving. And then you're asked to do a certain task that is. Actually strengthening the area of the brain that seems to be underutilized or struggling. And that has proven to be very effective with focus and some of that maturing that needs to happen in that frontal lobe, the prefrontal cortex. So there's a non invasive treatment. So there's many different things. Oftentimes, if you're getting your resources from the schools, my experience is that you They don't know a lot about, about the treatment plans that are out there. And so all they know pretty much is that talk to your pediatrician and maybe medication, which they can't say, but oftentimes it is kind of implied that. That's the pathway, especially if you've got a child with the hyperactive and impulsive, they're not a good fit in the classroom. They're really struggling. That's going to be a quick, like we need to get this fixed. That's what the school is going to want a quick fix for that. Children that present more with just inattentive, they're your daydreamers and they kind of drift off, but they generally are not a nuisance within the classroom. And so they can go undiagnosed. You know, they just kind of. Yeah. Fly under the radar because the behavior component isn't there, but they're also struggling and being disconnected and maybe lagging in maturity or content for their grade level or something just due to being kind of that daydreamer or, or somewhere else anyway. Right. Can you tell us the book that you were referring to? Sure. It's ADHD. Non medication treatments and skills for children and teens by deborah burdick And it is for clinicians or for parents, but they've got some great resources of activities to do for skills Organizational skills we're trying to work on this. What could I do websites galore and i'll have to put those down Where parents can resource but there's many resources to help with that There is a book called Twelve Principles for Raising a Child with ADHD by Russell A. Barkley, PhD. And I know that that has been referred to by doctors as a go to manual for parents to do. Learn more about ADHD and help their child and we will also put on our website, some of the resources that Jamie was talking about to help anybody who might be parenting a child with ADHD, or if you have ADHD yourself, and like I said, the frustrating part is you'll implement something. And it works for three months and then it's, it doesn't work anymore. And you're like, Oh, but I feel like also normalizing parents don't know anything different than their own kids that they've raised. And so they might feel like they don't realize, Oh, you two struggle with that. Oh, okay. I think there's also that normalizing parenting is difficult and challenging. And. So we can give each other grace and permission to take the time that they need. And some don't get it as fast, so that's okay. Well, our whole podcast is called Lemonade and Sunshine, and it's because we're trying to find people who have had challenges and gone through things and ended up finding the sunshine in those. Where's the sunshine here, Jamie? Like, is there sunshine for people that struggle with this? I want to call it a disorder. Is that correct? I would prefer that we move away from that and just it's a not a neurodiverse. Yeah neurodiverse Yeah, right and there are some main amazing things with this type of brain the amount of energy that these people have and Creativity in their mind can be very staggering and they are the ones that Yeah, they might not sit still but they've got seven businesses that they started and are managing at one given time. Right. And somebody with a different neurodiverse brain would be like, I'm barely managing my one thing. Right. So is there beauty within this? Of course. And we don't want to stifle that. We don't want to change it per se. We want to build skills for them so that they feel like they're functioning in their life and in society. But we're not trying to put anybody in a box. Right. Like this is normal and you need to fit in this normal box. It takes all kinds, all type of energy, all type of brain capacity, all sorts of charisma, and all of those things, personalities that help us integrate with each other in society, make the world go around and bring sunshine and enjoyment and differences within our communities and families. So, a counselor once told me that when you parent a child with ADHD, you have to kind of become an expert on ADHD so you know how to best parent the child. Would you agree with that? Well, I'm not sure I love the word expert, but do I believe that you have to understand the difference? The way your child's brain might function and how they're interpreting information and taking responsibility. All those things. Absolutely. You've got to understand. And there's no shame in that. There's no just like, I feel like it's no different than if you have a child who has a hearing. disability. You're going to teach, you are going to parent, you are going to accommodate for that disability that that is there. Why is ADHD and a neurodiverse brain any different? We've got to figure it out. But the difference I think is also that your brain is Evolving it's maturing. So it's going to look different. It is you can't just find one thing and then that's going to last but always understanding They don't even understand but together a parent and a child can can learn And have those open conversations about whatever it is like time management. I don't know how to get myself to places I i'm unfocused when i'm there and I might be You Losing my job like now we can work on that So what would help you and and I just think these are opportunities in my mind. This is that you know lemonade You can build such an amazing relationship with your child Because you have to spend more time getting to know each other and instead of just assuming we're just moving through this and You're doing fine. I'm doing fine. So there's not a lot of maybe opportunity to connect. Whereas if you've got somebody who's struggling with some difficulties of different skills and you can be there and there's that working relationship with each other. Wow. Now you've got a connection that's bonded within that, those struggles. And so I think you could also look at it that way. I definitely believe that. And I think that might be part of the problem. I hate to say it, but a lot of parents now. That's hard work. That's hard, hard work. And if you have more than one child, and if you have more than one child with ADHD, and it's spending a lot of time doing all of that, and that is tough. That's tough stuff, for sure. Do you see that there's so much more of this? I mean, when I was growing up, There wasn't this term. I spent a lot of time in the hall because I was acting out. I was trying to be funny in class and so I spent a lot of time in the hallway. So maybe if this diagnosis would have been available, then I might have been diagnosed with it. But are you just seeing so much more of it and why? Those are great questions. Yes, we're seeing more of that. There's many thoughts on the different sides of the debate of why we might be seeing that Um, we're more aware of it because we have this criteria and we can match people to that Oh, that's what we're looking at. Whereas maybe like you said years ago We just Call them unruly kids or, you know, like they're just, we just, we just, yeah, I'm not a kid. We didn't really have anything official. I think the other thing that I want to just bring up is that our world has changed so fast with technology that I don't think science can even keep up with. What the adverse effects that may be happening due to technology, um, physiologically, physiologically. Absolutely. Because if we're talking brains that have wavelengths and, you know, function on this, what happens when we introduce certain foods, right? High processed foods with a lot of chemicals in it or things that's not really food. But right, so we've got that we've got in our toxicities within our environment, pollutions and whatever that people are sensitive to. We've got technology that we do know alters and changes the brain. So now we've got all of this coming on at us. really fast. Science is not able to even keep up with what are we looking at? How is this truly impacting positively, negatively? We just don't even know. So could that be playing a role? And all of a sudden, we've got lots of people who say they're struggling more with attention issues and not being able to focus. Well, who can focus when our world is moving at a pace that's so, so fast? Like, of course, and you know, evolutionists would say, well, but our brains just, we just haven't caught up with the change that is happening in our environment that it takes time. To evolve into something like that. And it's just happening so fast. We've got iPhones. We've got kids who were born with iPhones, right? And they've only had that from their whole child, but we also got older people on this planet who knew what it was like to not have that. So are we going to see a difference? Yes. And, and we're just trying to help each other with all of that. And like I said, I think we just need to be patient with each other. With this and again, I don't know that we have all the answers Going back we do have different ways. We can provide skill building when we see deficits If we see somebody struggling with making eye contact Or social skills. They're not really taking responsibility Are there different ways we can show how that cause and effect happens and utilize more hands on experiences of cause and effect? I think that's a great way to teach with hands on experiments. Maybe even in our schools, we're not helping them really connect the cause and effect like we used to do without technology. So I was thinking about video games and how it alters their personality. Like, my children are totally different if they have been playing video games in not a good way. But also, my son had an elementary school teacher that let him stand up at his desk. She was like, I don't care if he stands up to do his work because she knew that it helped him and so good teachers. Who understand really make a huge difference for kids and the same goes the other way. Some can be damaging when they don't understand. Just learned last night at dinner that my grandson, he had a science fair project and his project was, Are you sick of getting sent to the principal's office? How about a stand up desk? And so that was his project, which I think is so smart of him. I mean, talk about thinking outside the box. He's like, teachers should have stand up desks offered in school so that kids could stand. Yeah. Is that crazy? I just think that's weird that you just said that. Okay. Anyway. Well, and let me, can I add to that? Education has not evolved or changed in 150 years. So, the way that education is sit in a chair, learn, it doesn't work for this generation. It is not working. And yet we're still trying to do what happened on the prairies in, you know, 1920 and the 1930s. It's just not working. That's why I built a standing desk in my office because as soon as I sat down, I felt like my brain was just like, shut off. Like it just didn't work. I need to be standing. Yeah. Something, something about that. Linear connection of like I'm vertical and I can think and and I can move and I'm on my feet. So again, those are strategies and unfortunately, um, my experience in the school system is it takes a lot to advocate, to get the things that you need for your kids to be successful. If they have a neurodiverse, Brain, and they're needing something. It unfortunately takes a lot to get them what they need. I was thinking how parents have to advocate for their child. And if they have an ADHD diagnosis at minimum, they should have a 504 or if not an IEP. And then by law, the schools, the teachers need to abide by those plans. And those can include things like motor brakes or sitting at the front of the class or being separated for test taking, things like that. I was also thinking about my other son whose second grade teacher would hand him a note and, you know, fold it and then say, can you take this to the office for me? And the note would just say to the office people, I needed a motor break. And that was not even in his IEP at that time, but the teacher just would see that he needed a motor break and would send him to take a walk. And sometimes kids need to do that. I mean, I think adults need to do that. Sometimes we need a little break. And so I think it was so great that his teacher did that for him. I think that's great. I would love to see a whole class. To be honest, all of those kids need that. And I went to a conference once and I can't remember the therapist's name. He was saying that, you know what, we have these kids that are basically the thermometers that signal to us that there is a problem. These kids are the thermometers that are saying formal education. In the way that we are currently going about this is not really working well, and yet we're not making a change as a whole thing. We're just saying. Well, you guys are the ones that are the problem. Yeah, looking at them is like, okay, so what are they trying to say? That's not working in my classroom. Can we change this up? Can we have more breaks? And we have moved away from Physical exercise, less P. E., less music, rhythm, all of those things that are proven to be healthy for brain development, and particularly the frontal lobes, that mature part that helps us rationalize, think of others, problem solve, take responsibility, that's all frontal lobe. Function and we've moved further and further away from providing opportunities for that part of the brain to develop in our Postmodern, uh, technology world. We've moved away from that, and I think we're seeing some of those effects. Repercussions. Yeah, they take art and music out first. And I'm so grateful that they didn't do that when I went to school, because I was an art major. I loved art. And that was therapy for me, and helped me a lot growing up. Yeah, my six year old grandson out at Vista, uh, he has 20 minutes for lunch and no recess. What? 20 minutes for lunch. That's the, that's recess. That's it. That's all he gets. So scarf your food and then you'll have maybe 10 minutes and then they have that tiny playground. My son's not happy. He doesn't really like conventional school anyway. And he's homeschooled his kids a lot. But, um, so yeah, that's a problem. That's like the opposite of what needs to happen here. Hello. Right. So Jamie, could you speak a little bit to how I think children who have ADHD can oftentimes be judged or misjudged? Yes. I think children who struggle with ADHD do get judged and misjudged. And as I was contemplating that, the thought came is that oftentimes they, Are misjudged that they don't care about anything that be because conventional consequences Uh don't work for them and Then that gets misstreated. They don't really care. They don't care about their grades. They don't care about things being taken away. They don't care about being expelled or yada, yada, yada. And I would say that is absolutely not correct. They have human emotions like everybody. They do care. They are sensitive. They feel like everybody else. It's just that. It doesn't maybe present in the way that traditionally we think, you know, oftentimes you'll have a child who all you have to do is give them the evil eye of don't touch that. Tears and, uh, you know, feel bad. And I, you know, okay. And maybe everybody's looking for that level of expression. And then you've got a child who, it comes across as, bring it on! And so then you might think, oh, they actually don't care. And I don't think that's true at all. And then that can often lead, these kids who do have diagnosis of ADHD and ADD, um, struggle and are more apt to have Substance use other ways that they're coping with their experiences and feeling very judged by society and for some reason, education is often the one that shows up. I've had a number of adults who sit with me on the couch and we'll talk about core beliefs and some of the negative core beliefs and. A lot of them come from their experience in the education system. They couldn't read and they couldn't sit or they whatever and just, uh, a negative core belief then was built around that and everything then. Whenever they did get in trouble or whatever happened, it just reinforces that somehow I'm different and I'm bad and whatever. And so, yes, I think they are misjudged. I think we need to show compassion to again, people who are different and know that they're human and it just presents differently. And again, this is that opportunity to actually get to know somebody at a very personal, intimate level that sometimes we don't. Really do. And when people don't have issues, they seem to get it like that. Then we just move on. And so again, the squeaky will gets the grease and in a relationship. Awesome to have that kind of connection that can come because we've got to take more time. We've got to be more involved. We've got to actually help them know themselves and we've got to. What's going on and how could we change and how can I be a part of that if that's what you want to make that change or Learn a new skill. How can I be a part of that and it does create a beautiful opportunity to be more invested in this relationship Well, I'm grateful for that perspective, because I think that is reassuring to hear and encouraging for people to hear in the everyday struggles of, you know, just raising kids in general, and then possibly raising somebody with the neurodiversity. Diversity? What did you call it? Neurodiversity. These kids can get bullied because they're different. And I just want to say that God is in the details and that we can pray and ask him how we can help our children. If we're seeing that they're struggling, he knows what the solution is and he will guide us and his parents. We have the right to ask him and to perceive that inspiration for our child and ultimately they're his children and they're just in our care, but he will help us to know how we can help them. Absolutely. And not to get bullied by other people who say it's something different, but you need to do something different than the inspiration that you were given. For that child, um, it's personal. Yeah, it's often specific, right? and oftentimes we get into these systems and we just convey about there's a way it's got to and They don't have the time. They don't have that connection with your child They don't have that inspiration given specifically for that. And so it can feel like we're battling oftentimes The experts if you will or the system that is saying this is what you need to do And I would challenge that because We only know what we know and science is ever changing and it's never us That's what science is. It's to the best of our knowledge This is what we think helps and that's what we should be saying. But does that mean that it may not work? Absolutely Yeah, everyone is different. Everyone's different and our bodies respond differently. We need different nutrients We need different at different times like oh, we're just so Individualized and god knows each of us and he knows what is going to help You Each child and what they're going to need to be successful in life and to help them with that. And we need to be seeking that from up above and not to fall. The experts that we often maybe that we often lean into because they have the credentials. Like you said, I, you know, I have all those credentials behind by name, but do I really know? No, I wouldn't pretend to know your child. I wouldn't pretend to know what. They need can I give some suggestions and say well this has worked for some people What if you tried that and I love when I counsel people i'm like i'm really nerdy. I love math and science So i'll be like this is a science experiment I can't guarantee this is my hypothesis that this will work and help you but it may not so what if you guys go Collect the data come back and tell me if my hypothesis was way off track or if it really Did help like that's where we get to be. And if we present things like that, it gives permission to fail or to say, you know what, that did not work and maybe not hang our hopes so fully on these experts because the reality is they don't know. Right. And what a better way to be an advocate for your child than to take it to the one who knows them better than we do, loves them better than we do, and has all the answers. So I love that. Well, this has been an amazing episode. I know we've really appreciated you coming, Jamie. Thank you so much. I know you are so busy and you've got a lot of stuff going and we appreciate you coming and so grateful for all this information. And I think this sheds some light on this topic for people and a little bit of sunshine too. Yeah. Thank you so much, Jamie. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you Jamie. We would love to hear from you. Yes, we really would. So please give us your feedback. And let us know if there's any topics you'd like us to cover. And how you have found the sunshine with the lemons in your lives. And how do they give us feedback, Kimberly? You can find us, Lemonade and Sunshine, on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple iTunes. Please give us a review and rating. It really helps us as a new show. Oh yeah, it absolutely does. So, until next. Next time, we hope that you can feel the sunshine. And we hope you will tune in next week to Lemonade and Sunshine.